2023-03-08 Meeting notes: Status of Camunda work

Date

08 Mar 2023

Housekeeping

• Convener and notes: Martina Schildt
• Next meeting: 06 Mar 2023

Discussion items

1. Status of Camunda work developed by TAMU | Jeremy Huff 
2. jere

Minutes

• Jeremy gives a tour of the current functionality
• use reporting dashboard for workflows | Camunda Cockpit
• different process definitions | graphical representations of workflows | read only
• Camunda integrates with LDP
• Camunda does API calls to FOLIO
• drive process using a command line tool: folio-workflow-cli | want to see a UI in the context of stripes
• Components currently are:
  • mod-workflow provides workflow interface
  • mod-camunda provides workflow engine interface
  • fw-registry
  • fw-cli runs alongside an instance of registry | sends requests to mod-workflow
• could be useful for people who use other workflow technology
• mod-camunda includes camunda | all built in
• there are ambitions to getting this into the flower releases | getting work trough evaluation process
• Maccabee in chat: Jeremy do you workflows include any human-mediated steps?  What is the UI / UX?
  • Jeremy: yes, spinning chair tasks | workflow pauses for asynchronous human feedback | currently no workflows implemented that do that, but part of initial design

• basic steps

  • building
  • activate
  • run/trigger workflow | manual or define triggers
  • monitor | camunda cockpit can be used here
• other trigger types
  • schedule trigger
  • event trigger
• we should
  • replace fw-registry and fw-cli with a graphical user interface
  • become compliant with FOLIO module acceptance criteria
  • implement exception handling strategy
  • increase test coverage
  • expanded tasks
    • processes, decissions, human tasks
    • batch tasks
  • kafka integration?
• Kristin: if you want this to become part of FOLIO would you need to license camunda?
  • Jeremy: camunda is open source (that's why it was selected as technology for this)
  • built into mod-camunda
• Owen: in other areas such as open search, kafka what's happened is: some team did it and that was the choice
  • having the choice here is great
  • on the other hand what we need here is the workflows
  • how do we move from "this can work" to "this is how we do it"?
    • Jeremy: need to get through evaluation process
    • having the choice is more labour intensive, that's why laid out design pattern
• Kristin: have use case that they want to use Prefect; could that work with mod-Camunda
• Owen: That seems like a good use case to describe and measure potential solutions against
• Jeremy: integrate worklfow engine to mod-workflow - work estimate 3-4 weeks for 2 developers | easy to do, but would require development
• if wanting to create a workflow you need to start creating JSON documents |  doing this is not fun | being a developer would help | that's why we need a UI
• the goal is to make it more accessible with UI set up
• Jenn: will you be able through UI to pass parameters?
  • Jeremy: yes, accepts predefined inouts, delivers the results via mail attachment
• Maccabee: have there been conversations with Sebastian on initial workflow thoughts
  • Jeremy: yes, a lot was based on conversations with him
• Jenn: does this deal with machine user?
  • Jeremy: yes, could work with specific user interacting with okapi | in theory
• Martina S.: What is the timeline for this being part of folio flower releases?
  • Jeremy: we are rather away from this < know that they want to work on it
• Maura in chat: Is this in the Folio GitHub?
  • initially yes, forked in TAMU to continue to work on it | not sure whether in sync
• Jenn in chat: If you were to spin up a team would it be just A&M or would you be able to take on help from others?
  • Jeremy: would love to take on help from others
• Martina S.: maybe we could find groups where we should market the work?
• Kristin: yes, we should take this to another level | had good discussions in this group
• Maccabee in chat: Lehigh might be interested in contributing to this development
• Jenn in chat: To be transparent I was thinking of arlef
• Owen in chat: I think some presentation on use cases as well would be really good - some support for actually getting this done
• Jenn in chat: I think we should also consider the intersection with data import and the gaps there this would fill
• Maura in chat: +1 Jenn
• Charlotte in chat: We might also would like to see the Camunda Work Flow module and the Dash Board module to interact
• Maura Byrne in chat: +1 Charlotte.  Definitely.
• Owen: use cases in ERM might have been different | functionality within app vs. functionality in workflow engine | look at where boundaries might lay < might work well for automating processes
  • what functionality might need to be in app?
  • would this help delievering needed functionality | could check e.g. in ERM | will discus with ERM dev and funding team
• Jeremy: Owen could meet with ERM folks at TAMU
• Maccabee in chat: Lehigh developed the Jira-based Purchase Request Platform that I think Owen is referring to.  There is definitely intersection between that kind of human-oriented workflow and what TAMU's work provides.
• Jeremy: modules could be leaner 
• Jenn: This is the thing I feel most excited about in FOLIO at the moment.
• Kristin: how do we raise awareness in project
  • Owen and Martina will have conversation with core ERM team
• will take it to PC | maybe would be good to out together some use cases in advance |this would be helped by adopting this
  • AI could summarize different workflow options
• Maura in: +1 Kristin
• Owen in chat: Yeah - that could be good I think Kristin
• Jenn Colt in chat: I think the work TAMU has put in to making a module shouldn’t be understated
  Vs those of us api=ing
• Charlotte Whitt in chat: + 1 Jenn
• Jenn in chat: Like I don’t think starting over should be it
• Maccabee in chat: Kristen++ There are gaps in FOLIO that require external solutions, that a workflow solution would help fill
• Dung-Lan in chat: +1 Maccabee & Kristin

Chat

18:15:32 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    Thanks Jeremy
18:17:21 Von  Maccabee Levine  an  Alle:
    Jeremy do you workflows include any human-mediated steps?  What is the UI / UX?
18:33:58 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    That seems like a good use case to describe and measure potential solutions against
18:35:18 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    “We were so worried about whether it could do, we never stopped to ask if we *should* do it” 🙂
18:37:28 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    You and I have different ideas of what’s fun Jeremy 🙂
18:42:11 Von  Jenn Colt  an  Alle:
    Even though we are currently using Prefect I would be really excited to see this going forward. I think we could probably port over our scripts
18:44:28 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    Is this in the Folio GitHub?
18:46:32 Von  Jenn Colt  an  Alle:
    If you were to spin up a team would it be just A&M or would you be able to take on help from others?
18:47:52 Von  Maccabee Levine  an  Alle:
    Lehigh might be interested in contributing to this development
18:47:55 Von  Jenn Colt  an  Alle:
    To be transparent I was thinking of arlef
18:48:10 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    I think some presentation on use cases as well would be really good - some support for actually getting this done
18:48:40 Von  Jenn Colt  an  Alle:
    I think we should also consider the intersection with data import and the gaps there this would fill
18:48:52 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    +1 Jenn
18:50:38 Von  Charlotte Whitt  an  Alle:
    We might also would like to see the Camunda Work Flow module and the Dash Board module to interact
18:50:58 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    +1 Charlotte.  Definitely.
18:52:41 Von  Maccabee Levine  an  Alle:
    Lehigh developed the Jira-based Purchase Request Platform that I think Owen is referring to.  There is definitely intersection between that kind of human-oriented workflow and what TAMU's work provides.
18:54:27 Von  Jenn Colt  an  Alle:
    This is the thing I feel most excited about in FOLIO at the moment.
18:55:07 Von  Huff, Jeremy T  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "This is the thing I ..." with 👍
18:58:02 Von  Martina Schildt | VZG  an  Alle:
    +1 Owen
18:58:25 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    +1 Kristin
18:58:26 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    Yeah - that could be good I think Kristin
18:58:35 Von  Laura Daniels  an  Alle:
    sorry, need to drop off -- thanks so much Jeremy
18:58:37 Von  Jenn Colt  an  Alle:
    I think the work TAMU has put in to making a module shouldn’t be understated
18:58:50 Von  Jenn Colt  an  Alle:
    Vs those of us api=ing
18:58:50 Von  Charlotte Whitt  an  Alle:
    + 1 Jenn
18:59:03 Von  Jenn Colt  an  Alle:
    Like I don’t think starting over should be it
18:59:08 Von  Martina Schildt | VZG  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "sorry, need to drop ..." with 👋
18:59:20 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "I think the work TAM..." with 👍
18:59:35 Von  Huff, Jeremy T  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "Like I don’t think s..." with 👏
18:59:46 Von  Maccabee Levine  an  Alle:
    Kristen++ There are gaps in FOLIO that require external solutions, that a workflow solution would help fill
19:00:32 Von  Dung-Lan Chen  an  Alle:
    +1 Maccabee & Kristin

Transcript

Future topics

• Topic proposal by Owen Stephens for October:
  • Use of shortcut keys and macros for more effective cross-app working  - it also be good to have UX and Stripes/dev knowledge for this discussion I think. I know @Laura (she/they) uses macros so might have insights into the potential for cross-app working
• UX/UI and implementers topics
  • should be Wednesdays
• Comprehensive look at where data is copied and stored as opposed to live data | how it is represented
• Date filters and how they work in different apps
• Printing

Attendees

Action items