2022-09-29 Product Council Meeting notes

Date

Attendees


Discussion items

TimeItemWhoNotes
10 minAnnouncementsAll

Notes: Karen Newbery 

4 kittens were abandoned at U Chicago Library

Shanghai Library East looks beautiful!

Morning Glory is released

All PC members: From Community Council request is simple: could you please name the top three areas of greatest concern for FOLIO (or conversely, three opportunities to strengthen and improve FOLIO)?

The question is deliberately open-ended, so feel free to interpret it in any way you choose. And no need for essays—in fact shorter and from the hip answers are probably better. 

Your responses may be anonymous or attributed, as you choose. If you are up to this, could you please send me a response by October 10? 

Record answers here

Looking to PC to reach out to people to have a diverse response set.

  • New Implementers:
    Saint Mary-of-the-Woods (SWOTW College) is live on FOLIO. SWOTC is implemented by Index Data. SMOTW College is a private Roman Catholic liberal arts college in Saint Mary-of-the-Woods, Indiana. Originally a college exclusively for women, it is now coeducational. It is the oldest Catholic college in Indiana and is known for the Mari Hulman George School of Equine Studies.
  • Also mentioned Holy Cross or South Texas College are now live - implemented by Index Data. Holy Cross went 'live' earlier this year and STC in August.

Pitch for Proposed Future Builds - group led by Julie Bickle

45 min

Council/Group Updates

Technical Council

Community Council

Release Planning (formerly Capacity Planning)

Product Owners (Will provide when able to join the meeting)

Technical Council

  • WOLFcon debrief and how to move forward on matters of Technical Debt and Architectural Blueprint
  • Reviewing Charter
  • Security Expert from EBSCO who volunteered to work with the Security Team
  • TC had a number of modules for review
    • mod-calendar - approved
    • mod-oa - sent back and will not be included in Nolana
    • setting module for GOBI - approved
    • These were all sent for approval around the end of the release cycle. Will kick off a review of the process, and it will likely change for Orchid.
    • TC would like these reviews to not be tied to the release schedules, but recognize that's not really how things work. Craig, Marc, Alexi will meet. Some of the modules have already been included in Nolana without having been approved. It gives TC one day to approve it or not have the functionality included in Nolana.
  • There are some other modules that were not submitted but are targeted for Nolana. There is ongoing conversation about those.
  • The process is structured for developers to submit small modules. Small modules are more likely to meet the criteria and approved.
  • There is a tension of working to deadlines, hopes the work that the work that Julie's group is doing will change that
  • In an ideal world, the TC sees this as a back and forth between TC and the developers, but the rush toward a flower release deadline makes that challenging.
  • What can we do to avoid the introduction of unapproved modules in existing modules as a matter of policy?
    • A broader challenge - we have criteria to accept - but it only applies to new modules. haven't figured out how to apply that criteria to existing modules. Acceptance shouldn't be permanent either. There should be a periodic review. "A module can not depend on a module that's already included" May  need to raise awareness in developers - there may be some who don't know the policy and criteria. Limit to how much can be done if people are aware and no one realized something needs to go to the TC for approval.
    • As we get our functional criteria, maybe discussions will happen earlier
    • SysOps has had these kinds of discussions for years. If we know of two modules that depend on each other, they should be merged into one module to reduce the number of dependencies.
    • Concern about folding dependencies into one module, apps should be independent from each other, modules could be spread across multiple apps.
    • Good topic for our futures group
    • Some interest in looking at module boundaries and where they could be redrawn so contact between modules could be more simple. But a PoC would be a lot of work.
    • Applications being independent - the integrated nature of real-life library work is not how it works.
      • True on a UX basis, maybe doesn't have to be true on an architectural basis.
      • Even during this conversation, we don't agree on what the words mean - dependency, app, module - where does this conversation go after this meeting?
      • We've identified some problems to feed into the group, and we can work on the definitions to be sure we all understand

Product Owners

Community Council

  • Community Council Treasurer's report - one developer is funded by FOLIO - extended contract through June of 2023
    • Decision made to target a 6 month reserve to keep the project running with the goal of having one year's expenses in reserve. As of now, the amount barely covers a three month reserve
  • Update from Tom Cramer about the Resourcing Group
    • Centralized model - spent time discussing this last meeting
    • Decentralized model - CC will discuss this more next meeting
  • Proposed vision for the future of FOLIO builds - was more of a recruiting session to sign up for that
  • Discussion about survey on thoughts about FOLIO 
    • Decision was made to try to get more feedback, so there's another set of questions to gather feedback
  • Harry presented the dashboards in Jira so Community Council could learn about how to look at what's targeted for current and past releases, and the release notes. 
    • Is there a need for a wrap-up of the information that's available in both Jira and the Release Notes at a higher level? Will continue discussion.
  • Next week, Harry will come back and share 
  • Release planning group (renaming of capacity planning group)- had a couple of calls this week to determine if Morning Glory was ready for release (it was released). Will have another meeting about the milestones the developers will have to hit to release Orchid. Will likely post next release's milestones next week. Alexi will share it on Slack.
    • Will try to have someone take official notes in the release planning group. The meeting is more like a stand-up, which traditionally only focuses on things that are problems.
    • have older capacity planning pages under the PC's page, want to transition to information under the release's page. Need to document the two channels the group is using.
10 min

SIG Conversations:

  • Reminder to contact the groups you are assigned
  • Suggested deadline for conversations: October 20 meeting
  • Any questions/clarifications?

All

Have PC liaisons reached out to their groups? Mostly no. May help to share questions in advance.
10 minUpcoming agenda itemsAll

Release notes and release planning cycle - Harry (October 6 meeting)

Roadmap (October 13 meeting)


Chat Log

09:30:35 From  Tiewei Liu  to  Everyone:
    https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/tTcevvZ4GglIEHHD8ENcIw
09:31:24 From  Tiewei Liu  to  Everyone:
    news report for the opening of Shanghai Library East
09:32:53 From  Owen Stephens  to  Everyone:
    Keep the mice from eating the newspapers
09:33:10 From  Harry  to  Everyone:
    And what names will they be given?
09:33:45 From  Owen Stephens  to  Everyone:
    I used to work in a university where there was a university cat that came in and out of the library
09:35:53 From  Alexis Manheim  to  Everyone:
    That is an amazing building!
09:38:55 From  Tiewei Liu  to  Everyone:
    Yes. The building is modern style and is supported with new technology.😍
09:41:46 From  Kristin Martin  to  Everyone:
    Would you mind taking a moment to share the sites here?
09:48:56 From  Charlotte Whitt  to  Everyone:
    Saint Mary-of-the-Woods (SWOTW College) is live on FOLIO. SWOTC is implemented by Index Data. SMOTW College is a private Roman Catholic liberal arts college in Saint Mary-of-the-Woods, Indiana. Originally a college exclusively for women, it is now coeducational. It is the oldest Catholic college in Indiana and is known for the Mari Hulman George School of Equine Studies.
09:50:17 From  Charlotte Whitt  to  Everyone:
    Also mentioned Holy Cross or South Texas College are now live - implemented by Index Data. Holy Cross went 'live' earlier this year and STC in August.
09:50:49 From  anya  to  Everyone:
    Congratulations!!!
09:52:27 From  Harry  to  Everyone:
    Congratulations!
09:52:32 From  Gang Zhou  to  Everyone:
    Congratulations !
09:57:06 From  Owen Stephens  to  Everyone:
    Note that this means Open Access won't be part of Nolana as we've passed the deadline
09:57:39 From  Harry  to  Everyone:
    Thank you everyone!
09:57:43 From  Karen Newbery  to  Everyone:
    Was the settings module for GOBI approved?
09:58:54 From  Marc Johnson  to  Everyone:
    Yes, the GOBI settings module was approved
09:59:10 From  Karen Newbery  to  Everyone:
    thanks!
09:59:56 From  Marc Johnson  to  Everyone:
    There are some other modules which weren’t submitted for approval yet are targeted for Nolana.
    
    There are ongoing conversations about what to do about those
10:01:30 From  Owen Stephens  to  Everyone:
    Ouch - that seems like a definite loop hole!
10:01:53 From  Tod Olson  to  Everyone:
    ✔️
10:04:53 From  Owen Stephens  to  Everyone:
    The flip side of that should really be that ‘acceptance isn't acceptance for all time’ ... but in reality that's going to be hard line to take
10:05:04 From  Marc Johnson  to  Everyone:
    I concur with what Owen said, a few of the folks I’ve talked to are hoping the working group that Julie is starting will significantly change some of this
10:05:13 From  Brooks Travis  to  Everyone:
    What can we do to avoid the introduction of unapproved modules in existing modules?
10:05:17 From  Brooks Travis  to  Everyone:
    As a matter of policy.
10:06:52 From  Brooks Travis  to  Everyone:
    The word “dependencies” should be in there somewhere… 😕
10:07:13 From  Owen Stephens  to  Everyone:
    The TC criteria do have some mention of dependencies
10:07:54 From  Brooks Travis  to  Everyone:
    Is that clearly communicated to the developers and the POs?
10:08:15 From  Brooks Travis  to  Everyone:
    Perhaps part of the project-level DoD?
10:08:28 From  Charlotte Whitt  to  Everyone:
    Maybe a topic for an upcoming PO meeting?
10:09:09 From  Brooks Travis  to  Everyone:
    That would encourage earlier submission of new modules, I would think, as well.
10:10:14 From  Brooks Travis  to  Everyone:
    eek!
10:10:17 From  Owen Stephens  to  Everyone:
    That can't be right
10:10:31 From  Marc Johnson  to  Everyone:
    The POs were briefed on this topic when it was introduced 
    
    We could bring it up in a PO meeting. I believe the king standing PO meeting conflicts with the TC maybe?
10:10:49 From  Owen Stephens  to  Everyone:
    Just because they depend on each other doesn't mean they have to be a single module
10:11:46 From  Owen Stephens  to  Everyone:
    That's a definition of apps that I've heard used but I don't think it's universally accepted in the community
10:11:56 From  Marc Johnson  to  Everyone:
    We do have criteria for dependencies.
    
    However the criteria only applies to new modules.
    
    So an existing module integrating with a new one, is a significant gap.
10:12:55 From  Marc Johnson  to  Everyone:
    Also, AFAIK, there is no project-wide DoD that is reliably applied. 
    
    I believe Khalilah has been trying to improve this situation
10:13:38 From  Owen Stephens  to  Everyone:
    The discussion and experience of going through a module review recently emphasises to me that achieving a rich ecosystem of modules and module contributors is going to be difficult to impossible with the current processes and practices
10:14:11 From  Brooks Travis  to  Everyone:
    +1 Owen
10:16:38 From  Marc Johnson  to  Everyone:
    Totally agree with Owen
10:17:43 From  Brooks Travis  to  Everyone:
    😒
10:18:25 From  Brooks Travis  to  Everyone:
    😬
10:18:59 From  Karen Newbery  to  Everyone:
    Admittedly, I have not reached out yet.
10:19:02 From  Brooks Travis  to  Everyone:
    That seems reaasonable. I have not.
10:19:32 From  Marc Johnson  to  Everyone:
    I would encourage folks who are interested in the apps, modules, dependencies, releases, acceptance etc topics to volunteer for Julie’s working group
10:19:50 From  Charlotte Whitt  to  Everyone:
    + 1 Marc
10:20:32 From  Kristin Martin  to  Everyone:
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TARb54dndusgk3BPgBBFvXWO_py39uKRHXhKd_gB_rw/edit#heading=h.m5ub9pgh9986
10:21:56 From  Kristin Martin  to  Everyone:
    https://folio-org.atlassian.net/wiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=2671716
10:28:12 From  Charlotte Whitt  to  Everyone:
    The planning process and the road map work also came up at yesterday’s PO meeting

Action items

  •