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TimeItemWhoNotes
1 minScribeAll

 Taras Spashchenko will take notes today.

Reminder:  Please copy/paste the Zoom chat into the notes.  If you miss it, this is saved along with the meeting recording, but having it here has benefits.

1 minTCR Board Review

All

Nothing new

5-10 minLiaison Updates

Maccabee Levine Tod Olson  Jakub Skoczen  Craig McNally 

  • CC: Maccabee Levine
    • No meeting this week
  • PC: Tod Olson
    • Announcement of Poppy delay
    • Update from the Application Formalization subgroup - charter has been written is in draft, PC voiced concerns about getting re-architecting work into the Roadmap, and whether Application Formalization and subsequent re-structuring would affect ability for apps to interact.
    • Meeting planning: scheduling topics and meetings around holidays, how to schedule for Asia/Pacific participation; SIGs going to written updates and quarterly PC meetings.
  • RMS Group: Jakub Skoczen
  • Security Team: Craig McNally




5 min

Technical Council Sub Groups Updates

All

Quick updates only.  If we can't find volunteers for groups, we'll need to add the topic to our backlog and address it during dedicated discussion sessions.

1 minDecision LogAll

Previous Notes:

  • DR-000038 - PostgreSQL Upgrade to 1516 created by Julian Ladisch . Detailed analysis has been done to check if any of the breaking changes will impact FOLIO. There are a couple of unknowns, where it can't be easily verified if FOLIO is affected.
    Craig McNally we want to move to PG15 but the Q release may be too soon, so the recommendation might be the R release.
  • Taras Spashchenko Kitfox is working on an env with PG14 and PG15 and will run a series of tests to exercise the platform. 
  • Marc Johnson are we trying to make a decision today? We're past the point where the decision should've been made for the Q release. it's not sufficient to just search and test FOLIO core code as implementers run custom code.
  • Jeremy Huff knowing the results from the actual testing would help to inform the decision

Today:

    • See OST topic below.
10-20 minRFCs

All

RFC Process Improvements:

  • Still need to update RFC metadata to reflect new/adjusted statuses, etc.

Notes:

15-25 min

Officially Supported Technologies

All

Standing agenda item to review/discuss any requested or required changes to officially supported technology lists

  • Check in on progress... does anything else require attention?

Today:

  • Formalize decisions on the following.  Quesnelia is the last chance to upgrade to avoid running unsupported versions:
    • Postgres 13 → Quesnelia 
    • Grails 6 → Quesnelia
  • Postgres 15 → Ramsons
    • Wait until we see the result of Kitfox testing
  • Attempt to move Quesnelia from DRAFT → ACCEPTED → ACTIVE since the relevant milestones have already passed.
1 minUpcoming MeetingsAll
  • - Topic TBD
    • Do we expect to have enough in attendance to make meeting worthwhile?
  • - Regular TC meeting
  • - Topic TBD
NAZoom Chat

Marc Johnson  to  Everyone 11:04 AM
AFAIK the Tri-council group has not finalised it’s charter yet

Jenn Colt  to  Everyone 11:05 AM
Correct

Marc Johnson  to  Everyone 11:11 AM
We discussed PostgreSQL 13 vs. 15 was on a Wednesday

Marc Johnson 11:11 AM
Last Wednesday IIRC

Tod Olson 11:11 AM
My recollection also.

Jenn Colt  to  Everyone 11:27 AM
Maybe they were reacting to my confusion

Jenn Colt  to  Everyone 11:42 AM
I’m out

Maccabee Levine  to  Everyone 11:43 AM
Not a quorum

Tod Olson  to  Everyone 11:49 AM
Shall take up Quesnelia OST for Postresql and Grails? I may be proved wrong, but that scope seems straightforward.

Owen Stephens  to  Everyone 11:59 AM
At least affected: Agreements, Licenses, Open Access (not in Flower release), Serials (new for Quesnelia)

Marc Johnson 11:59 AM
And service interactions?


Topic Backlog

Decision Log ReviewAll

Review decisions which are in progress.  Can any of them be accepted?  rejected?

Translation SubgroupAllSince we're having trouble finding volunteers for a subgroup, maybe we can make progress during a dedicated discussion session?
Communicating Breaking ChangesAllSince we're having trouble finding volunteers for a subgroup, maybe we can make progress during a dedicated discussion session?
Officially Supported Technologies - UpkeepAll

Previous Notes:

  • A workflow for these pages. When do they transition from one state to another. Do we even need statuses at all ?
  • Stripes architecture group has some questions about the Poppy release.
  • Zak: A handshake between developers, dev ops and the TC. Who makes that decision and how do we pass along that knowledge ? E.g. changes in Nodes and in the UI boxes. How to communicate this ? We have a large number of teams, all have to be aware of it.  TC should be alerted that changes are happening. We have a couple of dedicated channels for that. Most dev ops have subscribed to these channels. How can dev ops folk raise issues to the next level of community awareness ? There hasn't been a specific piece of TC to move that along.
  • Craig: There is a fourth group, "Capacity Planning" or "Release Planning". Slack is the de facto communication channel.  There are no objections to using Slack. An example is the Java 17 RFC. 
  • Craig: The TC gets it on the agenda and we will discuss it. The TC gets the final say.
  • Marc Johnson: We shouldn’t use the DevOps Channel. The dev ops folks have made it clear that it should only be used for support requests made to them.
  • Jakub: Our responsibility is to avoid piling up technical debt.
  • Marc: Some set of people have to actually make the call. Who lowers the chequered flag ?
  • Craig: It needs to ultimately come to the TC at least for awareness. There is a missing piece. Capacity Planning needs to provide input here. 
  • Marc: Stakeholders / Capacity Planning could make that decision. Who makes the decision ? Is it the government or is it some parts of the body ?
  • Marc: the developers community, the dev ops community and sys ops are involved. For example the Spring Framework discussion or the Java 17 discussion. But it was completely separate to the TC decision. It is a coordination and communication effort.
  • Marc: Maybe the TC needs to let go that they are the decision makers so that they be a moderating group.
  • Jakub: I agree with Marc. But we are not a system operating group. Dependency management should be in the responsibility of Release management. There are structures in the project for that.
  • Jason Root: I agree with Jakub and with Marc also. Policies should drive operational/release/support aspects of Folio.
  • Jason Root: If the idea of “support” is that frameworks are supported, then of course the project should meet that.
  • Marc Johnson
    Some group needs to inform OleksAii when a relevant policy event occurs.
    These documents effectively ARE the manifestation of the policy.
  • Craig: This is a topic for the next Monday session.

  • Craig to see if Oleksii Petrenko could join us to discuss the process for updating the officially supported technologies lists.


Dev Documentation VisibilityAll

Possible topic/activity for a Wednesday session:

  • Discuss/brainstorm:
    • Ideas for the type of developer-facing documentation we think would be most helpful for new developers
    • How we might bring existing documentation up to date and ensure it's consistent 
    • etc.

...