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Minute taker?Kirstin Kemner-Heek

No PC meeting this week. The FOLIO Stakeholders were meeting in Cologne to discuss the MVP proposal.

No other announcements

Renewals and ongoing orders

Review of assumptions of ongoing orders and design plans. Dennis Bridges Please link slides here!

  • Type "ongoing order" has a special renewal field with: renewal field, renewal interval, review period, manual review. Options  "automatic renewal" and "manual renewal".
  • Question: what happens when the renewal date is reached (automatic renewal).
    • Answer: systems renews the order at that date.
  • Order is now not connected to a fiscal year. PO number doesn't change with renewal (single or multiple). Encumbrance will be renewed for the recent year  if checkbox is checked.
  • Additional costs for a PO are added only with the invoice. Is just entered as payment. No encumbrances are considered.
  • How are encumbrances calculated? Watch minute 8:50 am to 9:10 am - reencumbrances sum up all payments for the recent period and calculates that sum as new encumbrance.
  • Reencumbrance for each POL and each fund.
  • If reencumbrance is not possible because of several reasons, order is flagged "alert". Needs more discussion.
  • Annual increases? Not yet addressed. Could be part of renewal information.
  • Renewal process vs. fiscal year roll over regarding encumbrances.
  • Renewal without checked "reencumber box" leads to no new encumbrance. Correct systems behaviour.
  • Order status "ongoing" stays as long until it is changed manually: normally an order is closed automatically when all POL are payed/received. Exception: status "ongoing" - that needs manual action.
  • Orders metadata widget keeps orders history. Provides overview for related invoices. At the moment no budget shown in result set. Seems to be a requirement from the group: show invoices, transactions and budgets in one overview.
  • Discussion about what data regarding orders, POL, invoices, budget, transactions shall be displayed, looked up where?

Recent systems often have 3 categories: monographs, serials/standing orders, subscriptions. Monographs and subscriptions are clearly to be encumbranced. Standing orders are much more difficult. That's why they are separated from subscriptions and often not encumbranced.

FOLIO has recently only 2 types: one time and ongoing. Is that enough?

Differentiation between standing order and subscription.

What can we do to bring this issue forward?

  • Ann-Marie: Shall we pull out the concept of renewal out of the first version?
  • Dennis: Do we need more information?
  • But: for cancellation definitly a renewal date is needed
  • For invoices: needs to be clearly displayed on POL: what amouint is payed when for what
  • But: Reencumbrance function needs to be there, when the first library live reaches its first fiscal year rollover
  • Discussion needs to be continued!
  • Next meeting agenda: placing renewal information on the order with encumbrance function? Ann-Marie will check that out.
  • Questions: shared in Slack? To accumulate information for next meeting
  • Next meeting agenda: more on encumbrances, subscription periods, history (Owen)



Von Scott Stangroom an alle: 02:55 PM

So, if I encumber a pile of money and pay for something on a monthly basis (to West for example), the encumbrance amount goes down each month as I pay that month’s bill. How about if I encumber an amount that is over the actual amount I pay? Can I disencumber the balance, since I don’t expect to pay anything more in that subscription cycle. Example: I anticipate paying US$400, but I actually pay only US$380 - can I “release” the $20 that remains encumbered? (this is for ongoing orders).

Von Ann-Marie Breaux an alle: 02:56 PM

Hi Scott - yes, if you think you're done, you can release any remaining encumbered funds

Von Scott Stangroom an alle: 02:58 PM


I anticipate the remaining encumbrance for a one-time purchase, i.e., monographs, the remaining encumbrance is automatically released (assuming there is a balance remaining).

Von Virginia Martin an alle: 03:00 PM

Agreed on default release of encumbrances for one-time orders, but not for ongoing orders.

Von Scott Stangroom an alle: 03:01 PM

Should hope you have a choice at rollover time to either renumber the same amount you encumbered the previous FY, OR you can re-encumber based on what you actually paid in the previous FY.

Von mir an alle: 03:02 PM


Von Scott Stangroom an alle: 03:02 PM

not renumber, re-encumber.

Von Virginia Martin an alle: 03:02 PM


Von Owen Stephens an alle: 03:05 PM

And an additional payment may or may not indicate a price increase

Von Owen Stephens an alle: 03:12 PM

I suspect there could be a role for data import / sub agent integration here

Von Scott Stangroom an alle: 03:14 PM

Maybe add the ability to increase the next FY by a certain percentage (a figure chosen by Library) over either what you paid the previous FY or what you initially encumbered the previous FY.

Agree, these are not go live features.

Von Owen Stephens an alle: 03:14 PM

So I think the question becomes what a renewal looks like if there is no encumbrance?

Von Ann-Marie Breaux an alle: 03:14 PM

Yes, exactly, Owen - where the subn agent gives you the anticipated cost for the subn for nex tFY, and you import the encumbrance $$ instead of manually adjusting it

Von Owen Stephens an alle: 03:25 PM

Yes - I’d had the same reading Virginia :)

Good to clarify

Von Owen Stephens an alle: 03:33 PM

But might be multiple budgets

Von Scott Stangroom an alle: 03:33 PM

If it is a multi-line invoice with more than one budget, you can’t display that well.

Von Owen Stephens an alle: 03:33 PM

And budget codes/names can be quite long in my experience

Von Heather Thoele an alle: 03:35 PM

is there a summary screen like this that displays what each invoice paid for?

Von Scott Stangroom an alle: 03:37 PM

would be great to be able to click on the invoice number to bring up a screen with the line items and respective budgets for each line.

Von Ann-Marie Breaux an alle: 03:37 PM

Hi Heather - yes, you can see a summary of the invoice that shows the total, plus each invoice line. That's over in the Invoices app, not in the individual orders. I think (?) the invoice number in this screenshot is a hotlink that woud take you to the invoice details.

Von Heather Thoele an alle: 03:38 PM

thanks Ann-Marie!

Von Owen Stephens an alle: 03:41 PM

I think reporting requirements on this are a good discussion topic - would it be worth having a dedicated session on that?

Also need to consider in-app vs out of app reporting

Von mir an alle: 03:42 PM


Von Sara Colglazier an alle: 03:43 PM

@Owen but it is not just about reporting ... often I need to be able to see at a glance or show at a glance

Though reporting is huge!

Von Ann-Marie Breaux an alle: 03:43 PM

Is there a link to this slide deck?

Von mir an alle: 03:43 PM

The better the information in the overviews is, the least extra reports are needed.

Von Owen Stephens an alle: 03:48 PM

So a related question I have which may also speak to it - what would you expect the “renewal” date to be for a serial subscription running Jan-Dec, paid in August?

Von Virginia Martin an alle: 03:49 PM

January 1

Von Scott Stangroom an alle: 03:49 PM

Renewal date would be January 1. Payment date is whenever the bill is paid in the system

Von Virginia Martin an alle: 03:50 PM


Von Owen Stephens an alle: 03:50 PM

OK - that means we can’t use the Renewal Date to indicate an expected payment date. Which means we don’t have a way of saying an expected invoice date? Is that a problem?

Von Kristin Martin an alle: 03:51 PM

The renewal process within the PO feels like we are trying to build in a workflow into the PO. Actually similar to the idea of "task lists" we've been talking about with ERM. I feel like I could check it as part of a workflow.

Von Virginia Martin an alle: 03:51 PM

you could base the expected invoice date based off last year's invoice date

not a great solution though

Von Owen Stephens an alle: 03:53 PM

Tasklist ! :)

And not the first year

Since starting this project I’ve come to intensely dislike the term ‘renewal’ :)

Von Scott Stangroom an alle: 03:53 PM

Yes, you can use the renewal date to indicate expected payment date. My paying a bill early is irrelevant.

Von Owen Stephens an alle: 03:57 PM

So the other thing to note (as Virginia would remind me I think) is that there is a split between the big publishers and then all the small individual titles

I’m pretty sure (thinking a long way back) that Aleph (used to) always re-encumber but you could choose to do it at zero rate

I think we could do worse than copy that model if we want something that does the basic job

Because encumber with zero amount means you can clearly see you have an expectation of an invoice

Von Scott Stangroom an alle: 03:59 PM

That would be the subscription date.

for ongoing stuff

Re-encumbering open orders for Monographs at rollover is also essential

Von Owen Stephens an alle: 03:59 PM

100% I think that makes sense Dennis

Von Scott Stangroom an alle: 03:59 PM

FY rollover re-encumbrance

Von Owen Stephens an alle: 04:00 PM

Then we can look at what a ‘renewal’ tasklist looks like and see if that could be applied to a PO/POL

Von Scott Stangroom an alle: 04:00 PM


Von Owen Stephens an alle: 04:01 PM

I could not do this kind of call before 8am

Dennis is a trouper :)

Can I suggest we need a slot on reporting as well?

Von Ann-Marie Breaux an alle: 04:03 PM

Gotta go

Von Owen Stephens an alle: 04:04 PM

I feel like I want to send Dennis coffee

Is there any way to enable this via a folio app? :)

Jira features review: any questions regarding

  • Data Import
  • Tags Basic/Central Management
Ann-Marie BreauxNo covered in this meeting.

Action items