Page tree
Skip to end of metadata
Go to start of metadata


Attendees

Guests: Andre Schueller-ZwierleinJames FullerRachel FadlonShawn NicholsonIan Walls

Discussion items

TimeItemWhoNotes
5 minOLF Update

Update from OLF Board meeting.

  • The OLF is  looking into purchasing liability insurance for its officers, as they can be held personally liable for the actions of the organization, even non-profits.  The OLF Treasurer is looking into this, and will find out if the OLF insurance will cover the officers of member organizations like FOLIO or if we'll need to purchase our own.  This should not be expensive.
15 min Orphaned Apps and funding

 There may be times where the developers of an App are no longer working with the project, or, are committed to other development when a problem arises.

  • PC had a discussion about the topics 2-3 weeks ago 
  • Clarification: who is doing this work over time?  Sustainability
  • Could some extra funding being applied to solve that issues?
  • Maintenance to be secured through MoU's for a certain amount of time if a team is adding software?
  • How do we decide to drop an app (that is not maintained any more)?
  • PC should have a holistic view on the whole system - no separation of apps by their role in FOLIO
  • Urgend! List on the roadmap of apps, that need to be maintained over time and now have no maintenance
  • Digital preservation planning as an example:  we need responsible persons to watch the app development and ensure the proper dealing with sustainability.
  • Comment: "Instead of looking at how to include more Apps into FOLIO, we could be looking at a certification process (with expiry) for modules"
  • Clarification: the "orphaned apps" in question are essential in other FOLIO areas to funtion correctly. They are NOT just running on themselves  - the apps are still needed
  • Action item: PC needs to keep a list of existing apps and their state of maintenance, their status of integration (tight or just loosly), developer team, responsibiltity, connected MoU's about maintenance  →  CC needs to consider contractual and support obligations for contributed code
  • →  bring this to the PC Roadmap Group!  Continue with the CC task, when the list is available
  • Harry:  consider very old apps, that need to be rewritten! Example: calendar app  

Chat:

Von Ian Walls an alle:  04:08 PM
move them to the Extended Apps domain, and let interested parties adopt them, fork them, or reimplment the API in a language they like
Von Ian Walls an alle:  04:13 PM
instead of looking at how to include more Apps into FOLIO, we could be looking at a certification process (with expiry) for modules
Von Keven Liu an alle:  04:24 PM
There will come a time when we won't have enough resources to take care of so many (and growing) applications, and forking or adoption or even commercialization some of them should be inevitable
Von Ian Walls an alle:  04:26 PM
ByWater is neither a hosting or a development provider (at this time). We do support.  If we could lower the barrier to FOLIO installation and development, we could do more to support our libraries when code issues come up
at this point, though, when a problem is at the code level, we cannot do much but file a bug



10 minQuick update/discussion on LDP App

Summarize events and current decisions; park an agenda item for lessons learned

  • Mike gives a summary of the process / discussion to include LDP into FOLIO until today
  • PC / TC decision, what is in, but in some cases the CC might need to have an eye on some processes 
  • The process around LDP was performed for the first time. Outcome for participants was, that some improvements / adjustments are necessary to mature the good process to secure the software's quality on clear requirements
  • TC will review 
  • Community wide discussion is welcomed
  • What can the CC do, to support the TC / PC?
    • Be aware of the complexity of the voting process and identify adjustments
  • Comment: "Actually the role of CC regarding the previous topic: we are supposed to “The Community Council is the ultimate escalation point for any and all councils and groups that are part of FOLIO” and also  ”Reviewing and approving new official governance policies in the community, based on discussions with other councils as applicable”. So if there is a suggestion to change the vote process we need to be the one to look into it."

Chat:

Von simeon an alle:  04:32 PM
This is an important maturation activity (minus the current angst) — I think the TC working on criteria and processes is going to be really helpful going forward
Von Boaz Nadav Manes (Lehigh) an alle:  04:35 PM
I thought that there was a vote on the workflow engine?
Von Keven Liu an alle:  04:36 PM
From my point of view, the work undertaking by LDP is something that must be included into the FOLIO suite, otherwise it would be unthinkable for our local application in China. I may have missed the point.
Von Boaz Nadav Manes (Lehigh) an alle:  04:41 PM
Actually the role of CC regarding the previous topic: we are supposed to “The Community Council is the ultimate escalation point for any and all councils and groups that are part of FOLIO” and also  ”Reviewing and approving new official governance policies in the community, based on discussions with other councils as applicable”. So if there is a suggestion to change the vote process we need to be the one to look into it.


15 minFOLIO Developer Resources
  • Overview: developer resources for FOLIO
    • list → capacity team
    • Harry with Mark V.: overview of developer teams
    • Share with PO's to calculate the necessary amount of time / FTE
    • Harry: shows spread sheet - please link
    • Action item: Spread sheet to list the dedicated FTE's and the other teams as well and keep them recent   - > pass over to CC: needed to make decisions about assigning additional development tasks  (see above..)
    • Action item: Come back to CC for revisiting the developer resources 
      • Mike and Harry to coordinate in about 2 weeks
    • Comment: CC may do that on a regular base to identify needs and work to recruit more resources
      • new apporach is welcomed (even this was tried in the past)
      • attract people to work on maintenance as well instead of just on new stuff 
        • But be aware, that motivation and skills are considered in a constructive way!
    • Project needs not just developers but PO's and other responsible people

Chat:

Von Keven Liu an alle:  04:52 PM
I was thinking that we might be able to recruit more qualified developers in China if we could provide the necessary training to our technical teams in China. They currently have the big problem of not being familiar with a domain platform like FOLIO, and of course people familiar with agile development are currently costly. I have some companies around me that are willing to pay to help with FOLIO R&D. Another problem they have is that their English is very bad and their culture is different, making it harder to join your team directly, but they need some of you to lead them.

Von Andre Schueller-Zwierlein an alle:  04:52 PM
I think this would be very helpful, and it should be presented to the community, so everyone cann see the full force of the movement and Investment!

Von Boaz Nadav Manes (Lehigh) an alle:  04:58 PM
Andre has a comment
Von Tom Cramer an alle:  04:59 PM
+1 Andre

Von Keven Liu an alle:  05:02 PM
I hope we will be able to continue to provide funding next year (for example, allowing us to pay a one-time membership fee for a few years), and also to be able to ask the community to train a development team, hopefully a team of 10-20 people should be promising, who may not necessarily be very experienced.

Von Tom Cramer an alle:  05:03 PM
Harry—thank you for bringing this. I do think 
Von Andre Schueller-Zwierlein an alle:  05:04 PM
That's a very good characterization!
Von Ian Walls an alle:  05:04 PM
developers should be treated like artists, not clerks
Von Ian Ibbotson an alle:  05:04 PM
+1 ^^
Von simeon an alle:  05:04 PM
Developers are people too!
Von Boaz Nadav Manes (Lehigh) an alle:  05:05 PM
I always wonder what is the artistic equivalent to a code review 🙂
Von Tom Cramer an alle:  05:05 PM
+1 Ians


15 minTop 3 goals and how our efforts relate

Postponed to next time!


Our top 3 goals and our activity to date

  1. Funding for sustainablity
    1. Created 3 subgroups (1 - reach out to current members), 2 - Look to attract more members, 3 - look for grant opportunities)
    2. Treasurer's budgeting efforts
  2. Community building (lowers barriers to participate as well)
    1. Efforts of the Onboarding group (now Website group)
    2. Discussion about best meeting times for international audience
    3. Ran Elections
    4. WOLFcon 2022 efforts
  3. Communicate on FOLIO's values, benefits, etc.
    1. Onboarding/Website review
    2. Discussions RE: addressable audience/mailing lists


Next week: Entire Agenda on Community Building



Community Wide MeetingMike Gorrell
  • move from October 8 to October 15

5

min

New FOLIO Community Member: ShenZhen Ketu Automatic New Technology Company
  • maybe at October 4 ???